DrWinn
09-20-2004, 05:49 PM
Here is an email I sent to TEPR today and Mark Andersen, a highly respected consultant with whom I have traded blows on occasion....
----------------------------------------
from Mark Andersen.....
Like you, I believe there is a direct disconnect. The TEPR judges do not see the actual application before selecting the finalists. They look at a written paper, select the finalist and then the finalist present a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation or short demo. There are NO scripts to follow to insure what the vendor can actually do. NextGen does all Powerpoint and they have won ever year.
I stopped being a judge back in 2002. I did not judge in 2003 or 2004. I found too many issues with the process.
Synamed was a finalists in four categories even though they only sell one application an EMR. Of Course, they did not win any of them.
Synamed costs about $400 /mo for PMS/EMR and EDI transactions not too bad. I user-interface is not bad and the system is simple to use. I am not sure where the other guy is coming from since I do not know what other systems he has looked at.
Agree, the hybrid option is probably win out. However, until we get third party validation of vendor claims, then all we really have is marketing hype. Eclinicalworks states that they are selling 100 new doctors a week. Based on this, they should have over 5,000 doctors on. Verify numbers are closer to 600. Which numbers do we believe?
Every vendor thinks they have the best system and they are selling the best. We need to see real numbers to verify it. 84% of the EMR vendors are privately held and do not release verifiable information on they client base, revenues, profitablility, new sales, etc. All we have is here-say the industry needs more.
What do you think about the HIMSS/AHIMA certification process that will be out in the Summer of 2005? Looks like a bunch of hospital people setting standards for the ambulatory side of business. 13 voting members between vendors (which ones), providers (how many in non-University ambulatory settings, and employers/payers (what do they know about EMR process).
Mark R. Anderson, FHIMSS, CPHIMS
CEO and Healthcare IT Futurist
AC Group, Inc.
118 Lyndsey Drive
Montgomery, TX 77316
(v) 281-413-5572
(f) 832-550-2338
(e) mark.anderson@acgroup.org
-----Original Message-----
From: David Winn [mailto:dlwinn@e-mds.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:36 PM
To: peter@medrecinst.com; ellen@tepr.com
Cc: mark.anderson@acgroup.org; Joel Andersen
Subject: FW: [emr] [emr]soapware
-----------------------------------------------------
my email to TEPR today.......
I copied this from the AAFP listserv. Falball uses Soapware, but is a knowledgeable end-user. He succinctly points out the problems with a browser based EMR (Synamed) and yet, Synamed is a 2004 award winner. It is this disconnect between end-user reality and TEPR awards that is so exasperating, and which discredits the whole TEPR award process. Instead of looking in the mirror and realizing you have a problem, however, you simply shrug it off as sour grapes (from my previous correspondence). e-MDs is doing incredibly well does that say something? The end users are on the internet among half a dozen different listservs and they are sharing their opinions (and making fun of TEPR!). Perhaps you guys need to rethink how you judge EMRs. Last, but not least I understand there is a natural internet based EMR bias. The smart money is not hanging its life on browser based EMRs and Java, however, but instead looking towards the hybrid EMR model made possible by Indigo, Yukon and Longhorn. Oh, by the way, I dont really care for Microsoft either, but they do understand both the advantages and limitations of the wild, wild web. It is the hybrid EMR that will ultimately prevail, not the client-server ASP or browser based EMR.
What is happening in the marketplace is not reflective of how you nominate and rank EMR vendors. I suspect TEPR will become increasingly marginalized in the overall scheme of things if you do not change your business practices IMHO.
David Winn, M.D., FAAFP
CEO and founder, e-MDs, Inc.
P.S. Instead of putting another black mark in your book of disliked EMR vendors, you might consider this advice as a friendly gesture to improve yourselves and do some serious introspection. The world is changing and TEPR is in danger of becoming obsolete.
-----Original Message-----
From: Falball@aol.com [mailto:Falball@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:27 PM
To: Electronic Medical Records
Subject: Re: [emr] [emr]soapware
Horrible Interface.
Not modular.
PM component is poor.
ASP only, and the owner/developer demonstrating it had
many problems with the demonstration as well, this is
not something you like to see at all and something you
really don't like to see in an ASP model, because they are
supposed to be the best at running programs over internet
connections. Price wasn't that great either.
Falball
Why, specifically, do you not recommend Synamed?
Lowell
-----Original Message-----
From: Falball@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:56:10
To:"Electronic Medical Records" <emr@lyris.aafp.org>
Subject: Re: [emr] [emr]soapware
Saw Synamed at TEPR 2004, at this time, not worth your time!
----------------------------------------
from Mark Andersen.....
Like you, I believe there is a direct disconnect. The TEPR judges do not see the actual application before selecting the finalists. They look at a written paper, select the finalist and then the finalist present a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation or short demo. There are NO scripts to follow to insure what the vendor can actually do. NextGen does all Powerpoint and they have won ever year.
I stopped being a judge back in 2002. I did not judge in 2003 or 2004. I found too many issues with the process.
Synamed was a finalists in four categories even though they only sell one application an EMR. Of Course, they did not win any of them.
Synamed costs about $400 /mo for PMS/EMR and EDI transactions not too bad. I user-interface is not bad and the system is simple to use. I am not sure where the other guy is coming from since I do not know what other systems he has looked at.
Agree, the hybrid option is probably win out. However, until we get third party validation of vendor claims, then all we really have is marketing hype. Eclinicalworks states that they are selling 100 new doctors a week. Based on this, they should have over 5,000 doctors on. Verify numbers are closer to 600. Which numbers do we believe?
Every vendor thinks they have the best system and they are selling the best. We need to see real numbers to verify it. 84% of the EMR vendors are privately held and do not release verifiable information on they client base, revenues, profitablility, new sales, etc. All we have is here-say the industry needs more.
What do you think about the HIMSS/AHIMA certification process that will be out in the Summer of 2005? Looks like a bunch of hospital people setting standards for the ambulatory side of business. 13 voting members between vendors (which ones), providers (how many in non-University ambulatory settings, and employers/payers (what do they know about EMR process).
Mark R. Anderson, FHIMSS, CPHIMS
CEO and Healthcare IT Futurist
AC Group, Inc.
118 Lyndsey Drive
Montgomery, TX 77316
(v) 281-413-5572
(f) 832-550-2338
(e) mark.anderson@acgroup.org
-----Original Message-----
From: David Winn [mailto:dlwinn@e-mds.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:36 PM
To: peter@medrecinst.com; ellen@tepr.com
Cc: mark.anderson@acgroup.org; Joel Andersen
Subject: FW: [emr] [emr]soapware
-----------------------------------------------------
my email to TEPR today.......
I copied this from the AAFP listserv. Falball uses Soapware, but is a knowledgeable end-user. He succinctly points out the problems with a browser based EMR (Synamed) and yet, Synamed is a 2004 award winner. It is this disconnect between end-user reality and TEPR awards that is so exasperating, and which discredits the whole TEPR award process. Instead of looking in the mirror and realizing you have a problem, however, you simply shrug it off as sour grapes (from my previous correspondence). e-MDs is doing incredibly well does that say something? The end users are on the internet among half a dozen different listservs and they are sharing their opinions (and making fun of TEPR!). Perhaps you guys need to rethink how you judge EMRs. Last, but not least I understand there is a natural internet based EMR bias. The smart money is not hanging its life on browser based EMRs and Java, however, but instead looking towards the hybrid EMR model made possible by Indigo, Yukon and Longhorn. Oh, by the way, I dont really care for Microsoft either, but they do understand both the advantages and limitations of the wild, wild web. It is the hybrid EMR that will ultimately prevail, not the client-server ASP or browser based EMR.
What is happening in the marketplace is not reflective of how you nominate and rank EMR vendors. I suspect TEPR will become increasingly marginalized in the overall scheme of things if you do not change your business practices IMHO.
David Winn, M.D., FAAFP
CEO and founder, e-MDs, Inc.
P.S. Instead of putting another black mark in your book of disliked EMR vendors, you might consider this advice as a friendly gesture to improve yourselves and do some serious introspection. The world is changing and TEPR is in danger of becoming obsolete.
-----Original Message-----
From: Falball@aol.com [mailto:Falball@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:27 PM
To: Electronic Medical Records
Subject: Re: [emr] [emr]soapware
Horrible Interface.
Not modular.
PM component is poor.
ASP only, and the owner/developer demonstrating it had
many problems with the demonstration as well, this is
not something you like to see at all and something you
really don't like to see in an ASP model, because they are
supposed to be the best at running programs over internet
connections. Price wasn't that great either.
Falball
Why, specifically, do you not recommend Synamed?
Lowell
-----Original Message-----
From: Falball@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:56:10
To:"Electronic Medical Records" <emr@lyris.aafp.org>
Subject: Re: [emr] [emr]soapware
Saw Synamed at TEPR 2004, at this time, not worth your time!