Hardware

[Scroggie]

What sort of hardware (routers, servers, tablets, palms) are you guys using?

I currently use a Dell Optiplex Desktop, 2.4Gig P4, over network. My hospital/clinic share single intranet (too big for me to know).

I am moving in a few months. So far I have Dlink AirG Wireless router with PCMIA card. Electrovaya SC800 Tablet PC.

Haven't decided on desktop vs server.

Don't know about printers either.

[LGrant]

I have a 2.4 P4 too, with XP Prof and two 933Mhz on a LAN at home, I have a UX50 which I use for work, or to connect to internet via an 802.11g router in my garage. When I built the house, I had them drop CAT5 cables in each room, so I can connect using Ethernet RJ11 sockets to the internet from any room, or wirelessly . I can print wirelessly from anywhere within 2 blocks of home using a USB print server on my home network, it's cool, I did it myself. 'wish I loved medicine as much; ok, I admit, I'm a geek
L

[BigDoc]

You got a firewall on that Lgrant?
My setup is similar, though I have an XP & Linux box on my LAN, have a Netgear 802.1b router, but my signal is weaker than my neighbors! 'never used a Tablet PC before.
Scroggie go for a server, and maybe help host us when we outgrow our hosting co :cool:

[Quack]

Scroggie, is that @work/home?

[Scroggie]

The Dell is at work
Just got the rest (tablet, router) at home to go in my new office.

My home PC is a handbuilt AMD 2400+ with 2000Pro.

So my new office set will be Something (server/desktop) + tabletPC +wireless router (with WEP/WAP). + Printer (my new office mates might have one (joining multispecialty group, no central system, but has CAT5 connected to hospital and T1 line.

Keep the comments comin.

[Scroggie]

What do you guys think about big laser versus small laser printers. Some people say the toner cost is lower with larger printers because the main cost is the filling of the cartridge not ink and the less you change it in the long run the cheaper it is.

I don't trust inkjets.

What about multifunction/all-in-ones?

[Scroggie]

About the home/work thing. I was planning a cable modem at home and a VPN or terminal services link to back up from work to home before I leave.

Anybody doing that?

[Mike]

I'm getting a VPN to the hospital set up soon, I can look up labs, Xrays, dictations, everything but the patient from the comfort of my bedroom while on call. We badly need an order entry system, i don't like this idea of calling in 40 of KCl.

[Kursk]

Intranet at work with Cybernet keyboard look here (http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm/DocId/602.htm) PC room 1, 2 other home builts in the other exam rooms (Durons). Cheap and efficent. Dell flat screens. Connected to hospitals' file server where the office notes and my access database reside. Home - wired/wireless with Linksys wrt54G router, 2 AN8X Asus boards with 1 gig dual channel DDram, Althlon XP 2800/2500, dual IDE harddrives both boxes.
Old dell pentium III with SUSE 8 to play with, surfs pretty well but too slow for much else.

HTTPS into hospital information systems from any PC in the world with internet access, which was nice at the HIMMS convention in Orlando this year.

[Scroggie]

Kursk. Nice set ups.

For your dual harddrives, are you mirroring them (using RAID or the like). I thought about making a Linux play box (Fedora Linux from the old Red Hat folks). Have you thought about using your linux box as a file server? I was thinking about that as a secure data cache.

Which Dell monitors (how big). Have your tried wireless at work?

[Cardiodoc]

At home:

1. P4 3.0 HT and P4 1.7, both with XP pro

2. ADSL broadband modem

3. Neatgear router for the intranet

4. Palm T C

[Scroggie]

Cardiodoc. How are you sharing the broadband modem: ie is it connected directly to one computer the throught that to the rest or is connected to the router as well.

[Kursk]

Scroggie - dell standard 15 inch flat screens for about 300 bucks, works well, not looking at PACs images or anything that takes a lot of resolution. Leaves plenty of room on the chart desk for the chart to be open (far from paperless I am afraid). The 2 rooms with PCs are on the floor under the chart shelf which has a pull out keyboard drawer. The first room just has the keyboard PC on the keboard pullout. I really like the cybernet computer, good price, great functionality, low profile. The exam room PCs are hardwired into the clinic intranet which is connected by ATM to central data center downtown. No appreciable lag. They back up the server at the data center.

As for linux - all my programing is in VBA/.net so I am tied to the microsoft platform. I just don't have time right now to replicate my application and functionality in open office/mySQL although it could certainly be done. Desktop Linux is okay but still has hardware configuration troubles at times (they blame the peripheral manufacturors for not including Linux drivers, etc) and once again I have a huge investment in MS stuff. But the SCO thing has me pretty pissed off so I continually monitor the Linux world to see if/when the transition will be easier for me.

[Scroggie]

I couldn't really find an access equivalent for Linux (or Mac). I'm with you on the "bound the MS".
I suppose you could store the backups only on the linux machine. Or maybe migrate the BE to MySQL and use OLE to link to the front end. SOunds like a lot of fun ;)

[Cardiodoc]

Scroggie, the broadband modem is connected to the router and the two PCs are connected to the router. Both PCs function independently and with the same speed, both share the same printer. I can plug my laptop to another port on the router and have the same result.

[Scroggie]

Are you using the wireless for the Tungsten C? I have a T3 and wish it had 802.11x instead of bluetooth.

[Cardiodoc]

I use the wireless at the hospital, not at home yet.

[BigDoc]

Impressive setup Kursk,



Intranet at work with Cybernet keyboard look here (http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm/DocId/602.htm) PC room 1, 2 other home builts in the other exam rooms (Durons). Cheap and efficent. Dell flat screens. Connected to hospitals' file server where the office notes and my access database reside. Home - wired/wireless with Linksys wrt54G router, 2 AN8X Asus boards with 1 gig dual channel DDram, Althlon XP 2800/2500, dual IDE harddrives both boxes.
Old dell pentium III with SUSE 8 to play with, surfs pretty well but too slow for much else.

HTTPS into hospital information systems from any PC in the world with internet access, which was nice at the HIMMS convention in Orlando this year.

[BigDoc]

Cardiodoc, what encryption system does your hospital have, MAC address filtering? WEP? Some tech guys I've talked to say they are prone to hacking, even with 128 bit, what handheld?


I use the wireless at the hospital, not at home yet.

[witchdoc]

Kursk, where did you get a flatscreen for $300 from?

[Kursk]

Kursk, where did you get a flatscreen for $300 from?
Dell purchase agreement with our medical group, but not really much of a discount. If I am not mistaken, the 15" screen pricepoint is about 300-350. Walmart sells KDS Rad 5 screens for less than that. :)

[Kursk]

Cardiodoc, what encryption system does your hospital have, MAC address filtering? WEP? Some tech guys I've talked to say they are prone to hacking, even with 128 bit, what handheld?

Wep is susceptible to hacking with simple tools like Airsnort even when SSID is turned off. MAC adresses are not encrypted so MAC filtering can be overcome. WPA seems much better if you use a good long random passphrase for your PSK (pre-shared key) unless you have a RADIUS authentication server (which means you already know much more than I do).

WEP IS WEAK! (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/excerpt/wirlsshacks_chap1/)

But I'm just a cave man analyst, what do I know :D

[Kursk]

Along the wireless lines, can anyone give some guidance on using VPN as a local link on a wireless network? :confused:

[mel]

oops, should I stop hotsyncing wirelessly Kursk? I transfer about 50k of handbase Patient data in the process. How about simply turning off SSID broadcast? someone has got to be really interested in me to try to snoop. I can only see the shared drives on each computer wirelessly with my handheld, and never keep anything of value on that profile, just family pics.

[Scroggie]

Reasonable effort. Ambigious enough.
So long as the SSID is off and you make some slight effort to use WEP or WAP or MAC filtering you should be covered.
Of course, who is gonna be snooping for non-broadcase SSID just in case?

[Kursk]

oops, should I stop hotsyncing wirelessly Kursk? I transfer about 50k of handbase Patient data in the process. How about simply turning off SSID broadcast? someone has got to be really interested in me to try to snoop. I can only see the shared drives on each computer wirelessly with my handheld, and never keep anything of value on that profile, just family pics.
Casual or accidental access can be prevented with the usual recommendations to turn of SSID broadcast and use MAC filtering. If I was at home and had no enemies close by then these measures might be adequate. It I was in business area or had unrestricted traffic going by I would be more careful. People wardrive for the thrill, for free broadband, for the joy of hacking and sometimes for malicious intent. I am not chicken little. The sky is not falling. On the other hand because WEP/WPA are really pretty easy to employ even if you don't understand Hall-Diffie, TKIP, RADIUS, AES etc, you really have no excuse not to use it. Then IF something bad happens, you can say that you used the latest technology to prevent snooping and I think your patients and your organization would likely be more forgiving. I run a mixed network with wired and wireless clients with WPA. I turn off the radio signal when I am not using the laptop. But hey - I'm just a cave man lawyer, what do I know. :D

[Kursk]

My brother was wondering how cable companies secured your packets on the wire. Interesting link, give it a read!Hacking cable modems (http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7977)

[Kursk]

Scroggie > how is the tablet PC? How is the handwriting recognition? Can it replace the keyboard for gen medical history taking?

[BigDoc]

Kursk, your neighbor can sniff packets of your data if they set their mind to it, and you are all on a cable modem

[Kursk]

Kursk, your neighbor can sniff packets of your data if they set their mind to it, and you are all on a cable modem

BD - any links to help me learn how they are doing it? According to the above article the cable modem is the key link - once you hack the modem then you can see all the packets going by. I think the bit about many cable providers NOT encrypting traffic was interesting.

[BigDoc]

Kursk, in a previous life (med school days) before this kind of stuff was made marginal, I'd be pulling out the PCB & soldering iron; was it the Digital Millenium Act, or something, that scared us away from even studying how it's done?
I've not kept up to date to be honest, but, will check.
Nowadays your IP address is logged wherever you go. Verizon recently overturned a ruling on a John Doe subpoena from the Recording Industry Association of America to release names of computer owners, I cannot remember how it ended, but IMO it while I disagree with what the college students were doing, RIAA tactics were clearly an abuse of the Act.
BD

[Kursk]

it is interesting how Wi-Fi is now like the shortwave hobby was in the past. All kinds of home grown devices. Check them lead levels after all that solder sniffing?

[Scroggie]

I checked and my modem isn't on the list:(

The tablet is interesting. It would be tough to take a free form, text only history. I use a combination of free text and picklists. I spent several hours to day making a nice little pop up form to enter numbers quickly. I may try that with phrases tommorow (will today since its 3 am).

Supposedly office 2003 (i've got XP) allows you to jot directly in the text box and will translate without the interface box.

Now I gotta beg the wife for more money.

[BigDoc]

Kursk, you joking, right? soldering iron->lead?

[Kursk]

I've got a balky dell with a wmp54G wireless card having trouble networking with an identical dell (which is working well) and a laptop using WRT54G router. I'm using WPA and have applied the WPA XP upgrade (XP home). Anyone else having trouble - I am trying to avoid paying $50 for Funk's Odyssey supplicant. I'm going to reinstall everything but was wondering if somebody has already been down this road (and its starting to look like a bad neighborhood late at night with a lot of liquor stores and neon, the kind of street where they roll down a chain link fence at closing time, a place where you don't look at people in the eyes unless you want to make a deal or get into fight. That's when I saw her, standing on the corner, looking as out of place as a ....)

[ozzie]

I have office 2002 and it has the writing Pad in fact I just moused now
look for writing pad you may have it turned off.. I think it's part of the voice deal but not sure..
oz

I checked and my modem isn't on the list:(

The tablet is interesting. It would be tough to take a free form, text only history. I use a combination of free text and picklists. I spent several hours to day making a nice little pop up form to enter numbers quickly. I may try that with phrases tommorow (will today since its 3 am).

Supposedly office 2003 (i've got XP) allows you to jot directly in the text box and will translate without the interface box.

Now I gotta beg the wife for more money.

[Kursk]

PC Mag and computer shopper both with issues on wireless devices. PC mag with extensive review of routers.

Anybody using the new G + stuff - Supposedly 100 level throughput but using proprietary protocols (over stuffing frames or something I think). The Linksys WRT54GS came out about 2 weeks after I bought the WRT54G - damn, got used again! New record for how fast my technology falls behind!

[Kursk]

along these line - anyone using a wireless media or music hub to connect to sound system/TV?

[BigDoc]

I have wireless G router by Netgear but cannot tell the difference from B in speed, it has better coverage of the house though, required no config

[Scroggie]

My tablet came with B which was slow when transmitting large files (the upgrades to OS and Access).
I added a D-Link G+ 108mbs and it is much faster and as bigdoc points out, has much better range.
I read in a recent publication (don't remember, probably PC world) that in the real word, B is about 4mbs, G about 20 and G+ about 50mbs.

YMMV (your milage may vary)

[Kursk]

Scrogman - what is the battery life like with the card constantly active? did you have to go with all Dlink equipment (interoperability between brands apparently is not working well with the "speedboost" technology which is different between Buffalo, Dlink and Linksys).

[Scroggie]

You have to use D-link cards that have the boost (AirPlus).

Its pretty good, the electrovaya tablets have special long life batteries (can go up to 16 hours with card off). With the screen bright, the drives spinning and the card going, its more like 6-8 hours.

[Kursk]

Wow. 6-8 hours is much better than I expected. I was working on docs laptop this AM that went into hibernation at a critical point (this was the start of the day) due to low battery.

[Kursk]

Have you checked your range? Friend of ours in "the great north woods" has a main house and some surrounding cabins and is gonna try a "can-tenna" to boost the range. Picked up my neighbors network the other night (unintentionally, went over and told them to turn off SSID broadcast, but fortunately they were running encrypted).

[ozzie]

Scotty : I canny go no faster Captain.
Captain Kirk : Don't worry as long as you can go as fast as your internet connection then you can get to priceline.com and see before Spock takes over my gig.
Scotty : But Captain we have gold super hype speed.
Spock : Vulcan logic tells me that the speed needed does not have to exceed the data flow..
Captain Kirk : Can you explain that Mr Spock.
Spock : I just did can't you pixel ..(groan)
Captain Kirk :Yes I can pixel but I need it explained so a washed up TV actor can understand or I will start singing.
Spock : Right away Captain.
Spock : Most home internet connections max out as 3 meg . Very few offices exceed 10 meg. The only time you would need to exceed that would be in your local office and even so how many times are you pushing MP3 and huge files across wireless. If it's laptop a simple cross over cable would better to move files from a laptop to a server if large in size. I dont know about tablet as Vulcans do not use them.
Captain Kirk :Thank you Mr Spock now lets head for Vulcan so I patch a bicycle tube as I need it Yup you guessed it Vulcanized ! Kinda makes your heart melt hey Spocky.

[Scroggie]

What you say about the internet is true, 802.11B is fine for surfing. Using Access with Jet database and the tables on the main server means using a lot of bandwidth for transfering data from the application (tablet) and files on the "server". The extra speed is noticible. I suppose when I finally switch the whole thing to a true client server (with mySQL) the amount of data being transmitted will be less.
The main advantage is range. FOr some reason the G travels through walls better.

[ozzie]

I would guess the stronger the signal greater range.. One thing I have found is that Cisco cards have better range than Dlink or linksys. Given the same scenario . As I have tested both same hardware same location..
Also there is no rule of thumb even for wireless it 's really about check each location ..
Also anttena's can make all the difference..

Oz

[Scroggie]

Cisco now owns linksys. I bet their cards will improve with the next generation 802.11n or x.

Dlink was the first with the speed boost so I went with them.

I had a Dlink B router with the extra big ass antena and the new one has much better range with the regular antena. go figure.

Sorry about the big ass reference Kursk didn't mean to pick on you ( ;) )

[ozzie]

huh ??
Sorry about the big ass reference Kursk didn't mean to pick on you
Dunno what you mean here ?

No problem like any other android robotic device a set af stairs will keep him it her busy for a while so I know where to run and how LOL

[Scroggie]

Kursk and his stretchin spandex pants (big ass, see the thread on tensile strength of spandex). Kursk needs our "encouragement" to keep ridin' (he doesn't really, but he thinks he does").

[alborg]

Scroggie:

Today was the first tryout of my new VIEWSONIC AIRPANEL (i.e. the one that took 7 weeks to arrive!), and it rocks! I actually had to find things to do between seeing patients (hang wall paintings, vacuum one of my rooms...). It's plenty fast, and the handwriting recognition will even decipher my scribbles. I'm ordering another one this week...

Regards,
Al

[Scroggie]

Sweet. I've been playing with the inkboxes and inkedits on the tablet. Lets you scribble right in the text box instead of using the input panel. Wonder if you drop these in your app?

[alborg]

Right into the textbox? Cool! What I need to do with my app now is to make a better "concept processor" or better yet "Borges processor" so as to do more tapping and less writing!

Al

[Kursk]

AL/Scroggs - is the handwriting recognition going to replace typing for you? - are you "keyboard free"? I have always been dubious about tablets/HR and therefore keyboard bound, but if you can do it I will give it another shot.

[Scroggie]

Kursk
I'm getting there. I've got most of my commong problems set up with a series of picklists and fixed text that insert with a tap or two. My number entry (vitals) is set up to use a little popup number pad. The main free text areas (subjective and A/P) in notes are set up with Inkboxes in addition to picklists. I still have to use some keyboard entry but its minimal for note making. I use the keyboard a lot for the "non encounter" stuff, like entering demographics and lab data, its just faster. I do this at a desktop workstation, the use the tablet with the patients.

Al
You can have the inkbox bound directly to the source table or query. What I do is have the inkbox hidden (unbound) behind the plain text box. When I double tap on the textbox, the inkfield pops up. I scribble whatever I want in the box and after a few seconds the it translates it to text. Once I'm finished I tap outside the inkbox and the LostFocus event appends the text to the bound control and empties the inkbox and hides it.

[ozzie]

What do you guys think about big laser versus small laser printers. Some people say the toner cost is lower with larger printers because the main cost is the filling of the cartridge not ink and the less you change it in the long run the cheaper it is. ?
Thas true but speed also is a factor . also can it be networked, multiple sheet feeders ,total sheet capacity ease of maintainece are also factors..
So it starts with :
do you need color
how many pages per day ?
how many pages per job ?
Size and paper style variants read how many trays?
networked via TCP/IP ?
how fast ?
Support / driver support
If a small printer always get one that pull the paper from the bottom the ones that feed vertically from the back are a pain even HP's
Allways been a HP fan see no reason to change unless high end color like in the 7k range then I go to xerox..

I don't trust inkjets
What about multifunction/all-in-ones? My son has baby Dell all in none and for home use it fine.. Down side is the ink has to be bought from Dell. But its very easy to scan copy and print. Bu I am not so sure is has the grunt for office use all day.
Kinda like a SUV good for general stuff but not really true 4WD not really a true VAN and certainly no a sports sedan. So you look at the features then pick based on which means much to you.

[Kursk]

Ozzie - got some tips/reference for VPN on wireless clients to AP/router? I am happy with WPA but some have recommended VPN. I haven't been lucky searching for a how-to so far. Kinda interested technically.

[Scroggie]

I would never go for another ink jet. I rarely if every need color. I would probably be printing 20 jobs per day, 2-3 pages per job via a network, probably TCP/IP versus "shared" printer.
Speed is nice, but I would probably be either batch printing at the end of the day or walking over between patients to pick it up. So speed isn't such a big deal.
Wait about the HP3300 line (they have new numbers now)?

[alborg]

Hi guys:

ozzie>>> My son has baby Dell all in none and for home use it fine.. Down side is the ink has to be bought from Dell. But its very easy to scan copy and print. Bu I am not so sure is has the grunt for office use all day.

I'm still using my HP all-in-one that I purchased from eBay last year for a mear $200.00. It does 18 ppm scanning which seems to be fine for my minimum-wage scanning lady. She's done 1200 charts so far! If I have to print, I reroute all printing jobs on the attached Gateway 2.4GHz computer (also eBay!) through TCP-IP, as does Scroggie. It's functional, and better yet, inexpensive.

Scroggie>>> You can have the inkbox bound directly to the source table or query...

Oh, ok- that's how it's done with the Airpanel, except that instead of double clicking on the textbox, you simply press a button on the side of the Airpanel. I've been looking for a second one, and it's somewhat difficult. It's being sold throughout the internet (ecost.com, half.com, etc), but usually from $700 on up. At eBay the sellers have lousy report cards, with histories of less than 30. I definitely am going to buy one there eventually, though, and hopefully for about $450.00, which is an excellent price for this technology.

>>> My number entry (vitals) is set up to use a little popup number pad.

This week when I have a moment, I'll upload onto my Yahoo site my lab form which shows how to quicken your dataentry into these tedious textboxes using option groups within MS Access. For example, for the systolic BP you can have buttons for: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. I have a little calculator-like notepad right there on the form. You set the textbox's "auto tab" feature to have the cursor move to the next textbox (in this case, the SBP field) when 3 spaces are filled in.

Example: BP= 178. You have the user press the "17" button then complete the fill-in of the textbox with the calculator notepad by pressing the "8". The cursor will go to the next textbox, the DBP textbox.

For the DPB there are new special situations. Your DBP has to be 3 spaces, but most of the time it'll be only 2 numbers, not triggering the "auto text" feature. Also, the DBP is usually anywhere from 70-110, a much more manageable group. Here your option group would best made with all numbers from 70, 71, 71, ... to 108, 109, and then 110 (i.e. 4 rows of 10 numbers). In your option group, you stipulate some code s.a.:

Select Case Frame169.value
Case 1
[DBP] = 70
Case 2
[DBP] = 71
Case 3
[DBP] = 72

etc. etc. etc then-

[Pulse].SetFocus

Then, as you need to do with the SBP, you have to make the DBP option group invisible and the Pulse option group visible in its place.

Neat huh? It works like a charm. I'll hurry up with the form upload...

Regards,
Al

[MikeH]

At work personal desktop:
1 Dell Dimension PIV 2.20GHz, 1 GB Ram, XP Pro, Off 2K3,
10 Dell PowerEdge Quad Xeons
couple of Cisco 48 port switches, a Cisco router & PIXs into T-1s
1 Dell Axim

At Home:
1 - Dell Precision - Dual Xeon 2.40GHz w/ 1MB L3 Cache, 2 GB Ram, Raid 1 w/ 73GB Ultra Drives (Mirror), XP Pro, Off 2k3
1 - Dell Latitude D600 - fully loaded out
1 - Dell Latitude C600 - Pent IV 800 MHz, fully loaded out
1 - Dell Latitude L400 - Pent IV 700 MHz, fully loaded out.
17.4" ViewSonic VA800 LCD, 8 port Omniview KVM switch, Linksys Router, DSL


Wifes:
1 Dell Latitude D600 - fully loaded
1 Dell Axim

[Scroggie]

Get out!!!!!!!!
Dual Xeons with 2Gbytes ram . . .

that's just not fair. And its your home system.


Sigh...

[MikeH]

Someone asked about printers.

My personal advice is go with a laser printers.

1) Costs per page is actually cheaper on a laser than a ink jet. The 4 toners required to run an HP 4500 Color Laser will run 9,000 pages for black & 6,000 pages for the three colors. To purchase all four toners would cost a total of $340 giving you a cost per page of 0.009 cents for black & a cost per page of 0.014 cents for color. A set of ink cartridges for the Deskjet 995c costs $65--$30 for a black cartridge that HP says should print about 833 pages, and $35 for a color cartridge that should print about 450 pages. This works out to about 3.6 cents per page of text and about 11.4 cents per page of color

2) Ink Jet smears if it gets wet, Laser doesn't. Spill that cup of coffee next to those docs that you just printed off using an Ink Jet and bye bye.

3) Don't fear the costs of a laser jet or the toner. If you are the owner, managing officer or the IT Manager or Director of your practice call Dell's business number and setup an account team for yourself. With a dedicated account team you will get better discounts than calling in to "anyone who answers" AND on the web. They sell everything now: Toners, paper, hardware & software.

Other Tips: In addition, use Microsoft's Open License Program for your software licenses. To enroll you must use a VAR (like say... Dell, CDW, etc) and purchase 5 licenses of any Microsoft product from them at cost, after that there will be steep discounts. Also a quick example of my Dell Account team: At work there are 4 HP Color 4600's, 3 HP 5Si's, 1 4v, 3 HP 4050's. Going through my Dell account team, my toner quotes are well below the costs of all the local suppliers, the toner phone jockeys who call constantly about off brand toners, AND CDW, CompUSA, and Micro Centers prices. Typical price at CDW for a 4600's magenta, yellow, or cyan is $155.99 each, my cost is $85 from Dell. Also setup a Net 30 account with CompUSA, your costs for instore purchases will change from shelf price to 14% above their margin.

[MikeH]

All I can say is I have a great relationship with Dell. My account manager does backflips for me, I ordered 10 new desktops 2 years ago all with 17" LCD monitors. My total cost equaled only 8 sytems. The other thing I can say is I like my toys!!! :D Just don't ask about my cars... lol :rolleyes:

[ozzie]

At Home:
1 - Dell Precision - Dual Xeon 2.40GHz w/ 1MB L3 Cache, 2 GB Ram, Raid 1 w/ 73GB Ultra Drives (Mirror), XP Pro, Off 2k3
1 - Dell Latitude D600 - fully loaded out
1 - Dell Latitude C600 - Pent IV 800 MHz, fully loaded out
1 - Dell Latitude L400 - Pent IV 700 MHz, fully loaded out.
17.4" ViewSonic VA800 LCD, 8 port Omniview KVM switch, Linksys Router, DSL


Wifes:
1 Dell Latitude D600 - fully loaded
1 Dell Axim

What wrong with dual xeons I have dual 450's with 1 meg cache kinda getting old now but it works just fine for what I need.But I do have raid 5 tho.
Got a couple of ugly ass 21 " monitors . just can't do the TCO to buy flatscreens.. About 10 boxes lying around running all sorts of stuff. A G3 for my Mac clients ..
Cisco and Dlink wireless networks and about 10 or so Cisco routers..
A Cisco Catalyst 5000 switch .. <-- max overkill here thats why I never turn it on.. LOL
IBM think pad RS 6000 ( now there is a classic )
And my thinkpad and a couple of older laptops I loan to clients etc when needed...
Anyone want a CCIE LAB cheap ??

[ozzie]

Ozzie - got some tips/reference for VPN on wireless clients to AP/router? I am happy with WPA but some have recommended VPN. I haven't been lucky searching for a how-to so far. Kinda interested technically.
Hmm VPN via wireless is going to be tricky as VPN requires a permeanent connection per se..
I would guess keeping a VPN up on a f laky wireless connection you would spend more time rebuilding connections than transporting data..

You would need to lock down the mac adresses and if super anal maybe login via a radius server.

Or just run LEAP or PEAP and before all go pasting stuff about LEAP insecurity
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,86189,00.html I am aware of this however security is a layered process so when you only use one layer or manage /re-visit the process you will be vunerable

Oh hospital stink when it comes to password policy anyhow everyone shares everyones login in at nurses stations anyhow.. LOL
kinda funny the above article references an old client I worked for when at IBM. I tried to change versus reset a password and the person had left the hosptital some 3 months earlier LOL

In the end WEP plus SSH or SSL is best effort

Also I use Cisco for wireless for clients it's not the cheapest solution but by far the best solution.. In the big picture $50 a Lan card price diff wont make or break anyone but the lack of range of the cheaper cards will lose a client in a heartbeat . If client wants cheap I tell them to shop on ebay LOL.



Oz

[alborg]

>>> If client wants cheap I tell them to shop on ebay LOL.

Hey! I'm sensitive about that... ebay? I love ebay!!! Now don't call it "CHEAP"! Call it "inexpensive"... ROFL!!!

Al

[ozzie]

I dont ever sell hardware unless its exceptional circumstances I just show the clients what to buy and let them do it .. there is just no margin anymore..
The only exception maybe servers that are custom built as I buy a dell shell then add the hard drives and ram then if ever a warranty problem just stuff the original hard drive and ram back in. At the end of the day is can make a easily a $500 difference on a $2000 server. Also I remove all factory installed software as it has too much garbage loaded..
I bet my wife out ebay's you LOL
We just bought nicotine patches for $20 a box versus $50 odd in the pharma lol
I used to make much money on a site called onsale which was really a wholesale ebay. Then ubid bought them out and croaked it ..
We have been avid ebayers for a while..
It just for clients it gets messy with payment and stuff easier to let them shop.. Also it keep me out of the "bad part who pays" and "ups lost the package stuff"..
Dealing with clients is much more simple if a line of demarcation is well defined.(grin)

[alborg]

Follow-up on the AIRPANEL display that I got on eBay:

Overall, it rocks! Downside is that you can't really use it out of the office.

In the office the 802.11b connection, which normally could hinder a tablet PC, works great with the AIRPANEL display, since only the video gets transmitted- the calculations and patient chart queries are performed on the host Windows XP machine. It's really quite fast! The "4 hour" battery life is enough to last me the whole day, since the machine turns off within 3 minutes of nonuse (my personal setting- reconnection takes only 10 seconds after pressing the "on" button).

I've now ordered another AIRPANEL for my associate- 10 inches diagonal like the first (15 inches weighs more and eats up battery life slightly more). Forget about eBay- the listings are about to disappear; you can still get a refurbished unit cheap at Tigerdirect.com ($499) or at the viewsonic.com website ($580). It's a shame that this technology will disappear forever over the next year...

Regards,
AL

[buslick]

Al how do you connect to the desktop. I'm confused after reading the Vewsonic website and the Tiger website. The Airpanel comes with native 802.11b right? To connect to a desktop the Tiger site says something about a USB wireless adaptor is needed. I take it that this wireless USB adaptor plugs into the USB port on the desktop? Is that what you are using? If not how do you have it set up? I would like to try this route rather that getting a tablet PC right now.

[ozzie]

Al how do you connect to the desktop. I'm confused after reading the Vewsonic website and the Tiger website. The Airpanel comes with native 802.11b right? To connect to a desktop the Tiger site says something about a USB wireless adaptor is needed. I take it that this wireless USB adaptor plugs into the USB port on the desktop? Is that what you are using? If not how do you have it set up? I would like to try this route rather that getting a tablet PC right now.
I played with one while back and I think it uses ce kinda like a thin client to a host PC running XP or whatever.. So it's really a PDA to another PC using wireless rather than serial or USB to upload data etc..

Al says the technology will die within in the year so maybe he knows something I? we dont ???

[alborg]

Hi Buslick:

>>> Al how do you connect to the desktop?
It comes with everything you need to connect to a Windows XP computer, including:
1) Windows XP (2 different versions depending on if you have Windows XP Home or anything else)
2) The USB wireless node is included... you simply have to plug it into your computer, plug in an Airpanel to desktop computer "blue cord" (included), and let the Airpanel setup disk (also included) do the rest.
The blue cord will download the Airpanel data onto your desktop XP computer and finalize the settings.
I got 2 Airpanels for much less than what my associate paid for his eBay-purchased tablet PC... and on top of that, I have 4 excess Windows XP softwares to use with those computers in my office with ancient Windows 2000/XP versions. You really can't do better; when it sold for $1300.00 all the addon fluff really sunk its sales. For less than $500.00, though, it's definitely a bargain! On top of all this, since it doesn't have a rotating hard drive and a hot Pentium chip residing inside, the battery life lasts all day long. (On Saturday, after 6 hours of use, my "4 hour" batter still had 48% of juice still available.) It's really FAST, since it only has to update the desktop video, rather than swap a snapshot of 6000 patient records with my database software backend.
I get more delighted by the day...
Hi ozzie!
>>> it uses ce kinda like a thin client
Yup, and for this singular purpose, the Windows CE to XP OS is great... and this coming from a guy which otherwise owns pure Palm devices! One downside- you can't take it out of the office to see your hospital patients very easily; I haven't tried it, but one user group noted that the device's card slot either doesn't work at all or works with some difficulty. Since I don't really care about it at this time (I use my Palm Tungsten T3 for hospital mobility), I'll let somebody else confirm this peculiar bug.
>>> Al says the technology will die within in the year so maybe he knows something I? we dont ???
Actually, it's DEAD already... Microsoft dropped the Windows CE-XP interchange idea on 2/2004, which is why the Airpanels have virtually disappeared from eBay and why they are so cheap on Tigerdirect. Microsoft's loss is our gain, though.
What I meant was that Microsoft probably saw that the 100Mbps 802.11n coming this fall, and that'll make the tablet PC's equally wireless-fast, and by then many will be at sub-$1000 levels. The pricing for the Airpanel would have to go down so far that it'll surely become unprofitable as it's currently packaged.
If I were Bill Gates I would have dumped the fluff- the 802 node (you could purchase one for real cheap nowadays), the Windows softwares, etc and decreased the price accordingly. I would have offered a patch for earlier Windows to make the thing run on any machine, rather than force folks to upgrade to Windows XP. It's lifespan would have gone for years, since the idea is sound.
One problem that I have noticed- Microsoft sold the Airpanel idea for "home use" so that folks could go web-online from any room in their homes. Nowadays, though, you would have to be crazy to go online without an internet firewall s.a. ZoneAlarm. These usually close all LAN connections, including wireless... i.e. in today's Sasser environment it's impossible to use the Airpanel to roam the internet.
Regards,
AL

[buslick]

Thanks Al.

So what do you do for security when you use this Airpanel to access patient records?

[alborg]

The Airpanel has inherent "WEP enabled" encription (whatever that means)... but you gotta take that with a grain of salt, since it's made by Microsoft! Outside of that, the best thing that I got going for me on the privacy side is the fact that my office is on the top floor of my building and that the connection is an 802.11b- the connection has only about a radius of 30 feet (the hallway is 40 feet away from the access point).

That said... my technosavvy brother-in-law was in to see my neighbor, the dermatologist and he was able to log onto my 802.11a general access point. I've since unplugged that hole...

Regards,
Al

[mel]

From a recent discussion I can't recall where, 802.11b is inherently not very secure,
what do you use, MAC address filtering? WEP? Keys? Turn off broadcast?
I have warned 2 of my neighbors one with a better signal than my own of their networks.
Mel

[alborg]

WEP. Do you know of any software programs that can overlay the connection for increased security?

AL

[Kursk]

From a recent discussion I can't recall where, 802.11b is inherently not very secure,
what do you use, MAC address filtering? WEP? Keys? Turn off broadcast?
I have warned 2 of my neighbors one with a better signal than my own of their networks.
Mel
Mel, look back a few pages in this thread.
Early WEP was poor due to weak frames that can eventually surrender the key if enough frames are captured. Subsequent WEP is better. Later WEP devices usually can be firmwared upto WPA which is an even better standard when employed correctly. I doubt the airpanel falls in this category.

Our organization just published their wireless standard. Requires $800 access point!

[BigDoc]

Our organization just published their wireless standard. Requires $800 access point!


$800??
Can you use any odd 802.11 devide with this router?
B

[Kursk]

BD I don't have the standard in front of me but if the AP costs 10 x consumer device you can bet the cards will be about the same!

Effectively telling doctors "stay off our network you pathetic losers!"

[ozzie]

WEP. Do you know of any software programs that can overlay the connection for increased security?

AL
Cisco has LEAP And now you have Protected Extensible Authentication Protocol (PEAP), but in the end as all airwaves are public there still is some form of exposure.. Running https or a ssl session will help a lot..

[buslick]

Al, based on your praise I went ahead and bought an Airpanel. It was easy to set up. Battery life has been ok. My handwriting must be much worse than yours Al because the recognition for me is 50%. The wireless signal is excellent to good for my exam rooms (steel building). The wireless signal does not go upstairs (concrete floors). I am mainly using it for doing the ROS in Praxis and it works great. I also use it for the PMHX, PSHX, Family history, and social history since they are mostly point and click in Praxis. I do the HPI and Assesment at my desktop. For text input I am learning to use MessageEase which is faster than the onscreen keyboard. I also surf the web to look up things which works great. It is lighter than the Tablet PCs I have looked at which is a plus. It also does not get hot like some of the tablet PCs (like the new Motion 1400 that gets up to 100 degrees). I will give another update as I use it more.

[mel]

BD I don't have the standard in front of me but if the AP costs 10 x consumer device you can bet the cards will be about the same!
Effectively telling doctors "stay off our network you pathetic losers!"

I can see them do that :D

[alborg]

>>> Al, based on your praise I went ahead and bought an Airpanel.

Great! Now you're part of the club... Anyhow, I hope it works for you. Microsoft not only got rid of these Airpanels on 2/04, but this month it decided to get rid of ALL of their WIFI equiptment lines (read about this yesterday).

The Airpanel handwriting recognition is good, but for large reports I really need to rely on a typewriter, which is why I looked for and purchased 2 mini-USB keyboards on eBay ($14 each with S&H):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4131094129&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

BTW, the trick to improving battery life is to have it power down after 30 seconds of inactivity... unlike a tablet PC which has to "wake up" from a standby mode, all you have to do is to reconnect again (takes about 10 seconds).

Regards,
Al

[ozzie]

>>> Al, based on your praise I went ahead and bought an Airpanel.

Great! Now you're part of the club... Anyhow, I hope it works for you. Microsoft not only got rid of these Airpanels on 2/04, but this month it decided to get rid of ALL of their WIFI equiptment lines (read about this yesterday).

Regards,
Al


thats a shame really because the MS kit MN 820 was secure and very easy to install out of the box And had tough little firewall out of the box..

oz

[MikeH]

Sorry to say otherwise, but I have been looking at wireless solutions for the past two weeks.

In WiFi you must understand rule number is WiFi Breaks all the Rules.

MS, Cisco, WEP can all be cracked into within minutes, even if you are using encryption.

Almost the only way to be secure is with something like AirDefense by Fortress. Creates a VPN like tunnel using shared encrypted keys, client software, and an ACS server.

[ozzie]

Sorry to say otherwise, but I have been looking at wireless solutions for the past two weeks.

In WiFi you must understand rule number is WiFi Breaks all the Rules.

MS, Cisco, WEP can all be cracked into within minutes, even if you are using encryption.

Almost the only way to be secure is with something like AirDefense by Fortress. Creates a VPN like tunnel using shared encrypted keys, client software, and an ACS server.
WPA and PEAP give you a chance and airdefence http://www.airdefense.net/products/ looks great but not cheap and only works in a LAN deal so for the average small practice would be out of whack pricewise.. Add after all that air defence only work in the controlled environment..

oz

[MikeH]

When working with WiFi you want a controlled environment or you shouldn't be using it.

There are actually individuals that drive randomly around their cities with a laptop looking for access. Using just store bought Linksys, Microsoft, Netgear really is not protecting your clients personal information. I have sat through 6 vendor presentations just this week dealing with wi-fi, one was with the CTO who personally gave me a lunch and learn where he cracked Cisco's LEAP in 15 minutes. A computer on a Linksys, Microsoft or Netgear took him less than 5.

Sorry but I am a security freak when it comes to networks & computers.

[mel]

Maybe when enough people start using wireless, and privacy laws are mordenized, there will be disincentives to hack private networks; look at regular mail, it is relatively easy to have your mail stolen (as happens often in NYC,) but what is the ROI for the perpetrator?
Mel

[MikeH]

disincentives? Sorry Mel, but you need to see it another way. First hacks don't think in terms of ROI's. They are in it for: What new security hole can I find? What kind of information can I get ahold of? Oh! there is a network, how far can I get inside and will I get caught this time? There are several types of hackers in this world. You have those who do it for fun, those who do it for the rush, and those who do it for profit. Hackers don't write viruses, and they don't typically crash systems. You typically won't see hackers in their late 30's, 40's or 50's. Go to a B&N's periodical section and look for 2600 digest. In the back flip through to find your city and when the next 2600 meeting will be. I live in Atlanta, the meetings are held at Lenox Mall after school. What you will find is a bunch of 12 yr olds to 20 somethings and a few older hardcore security types. Tell me how does a 18 year old think in terms of ROI or disincentives?

You have 3 main types of hackers.

Those who do it for fun, it is a hobby for them. They are out there just looking at networks and for new security holes. 9 times out of 10 these type report that they have been on your network, that you need to fix this this and that or they report the issue with your vendors, such as MS Cisco or Novell.

Those who do it for the rush, are like a drag racer, skydiver, etc. It is all about what they can do, how fast they can do it, and will they get caught.

Those who do it for profit are sometimes looking to cause harm to a network paid for by a competitor. Or they are looking for just enough information such as SSN, Credit Cards, etc. to make some money.

Think about this, you put in a wi-fi system, not secured. It has tie in to your billing system, somewhere in the billing system shows your patient's co-payment by credit card number. Bingo. If you have a home grown billing system, did you secure your db by encrypting it? If your using Access, nope. If you have a system by say WebMD, Misys, or NextGen? Maybe, Mostlikely. How long or hard would this be to get into your network and figure out there are CC's in the claims system? I have no clue, cause I only monitor so I keep up to date to keep hackers out of my networks. I don't practice the trade, but from what I have seen in regards to wi-fi security. I would say on a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being hardest about a 3 or 4 to get onto a store bought system, especially one installed without a consultant specializing in the wi-fi.

How and why do I know so much about hacking?

First, I don't want to give you the wrong impression, I don't hack. I have 10+ years in the Information Technology areana. I have developed strong business relationships with Fortune 100 companies, Government Agencies, and small business across the states working as a Staff level Engineer (both pre/post sales). I am the currently an IT Director for a consulting company based in Atlanta GA. I hold a chair on the Board of Directors for the Network Professional Association (NPA), and am the founding member and 2004 President of the Atlanta Chapter of the NPA. I am certified in both Cisco & Microsoft, plus am or have been an active member is such organizations as NaSPA, IEEE, TAG, NPA, F&AM, and Scottish Rites. Over the past 12 months I have been working with four other individuals in creating InVision Logix. InVision Logix will be a healthcare software development company, where I will hold the title of COO. We are currently at the stage of meeting with Venture Capital Investors. In fact we have a meeting tomorrow with them so please wish me luck.

[ozzie]

disincentives? Sorry Mel, but you need to see it another way. First hacks don't think in terms of ROI's. They are in it for: What new security hole can I find? What kind of information can I get a hold of? Oh! there is a network, how far can I get inside and will I get caught this time? There are several types of hackers in this world. You have those who do it for fun, those who do it for the rush, and those who do it for profit. Hackers don't write viruses, and they don't typically crash systems. You typically won't see hackers in their late 30's, 40's or 50's. Go to a B&N's periodical section and look for 2600 digest. In the back flip through to find your city and when the next 2600 meeting will be. I live in Atlanta, the meetings are held at Lenox Mall after school. What you will find is a bunch of 12 yr olds to 20 somethings and a few older hardcore security types. Tell me how does a 18 year old think in terms of ROI or disincentives?
You know why you don't see old hackers because we are smart enough to say out of idiot 2600 meets . Who do you think the young folks got all the hack tools from . Use 2600 mag add corps you might as well just email the FBI..
A great disincentive is getting folks locked up when the script kiddes do 10 years for spitting out virus and AOL /whoever get fined for having such $hitty security that is can propagate virus maybe things will change..
There never were laws against auto when they first came out but look now..

You have 3 main types of hackers.


Those who do it for fun, it is a hobby for them. They are out there just looking at networks and for new security holes. 9 times out of 10 these type report that they have been on your network, that you need to fix this this and that or they report the issue with your vendors, such as MS Cisco or Novell.

If I catch you hacking my network you are in trouble ..
This is !@#$%^& urban legend try testing the security of bank and tell the judge you were not robbing it



Those who do it for the rush, are like a drag racer, skydiver, etc. It is all about what they can do, how fast they can do it, and will they get caught.


Thes are very few and far between another urban legend unless is a group that is into social engineering like when PETA got fur trade websites hacked.
[QUOTE=MikeH]
Those who do it for profit are sometimes looking to cause harm to a network paid for by a competitor.

Thats look like a nice sales pitch from some security folks nice lie tho



Or they are looking for just enough information such as SSN, Credit Cards, etc. to make some money.

this is close now but if you are that good you will look for a huge target like amazon etc where there are thousands of CC to get and no common denominator .the average little script kiddy hacker scanning ports is more curious that anything else


Think about this, you put in a wi-fi system, not secured. It has tie in to your billing system, somewhere in the billing system shows your patient's co-payment by credit card number. Bingo.

As Ronald Reagan would say "there you go" .
What the @#$% has a poorly secured and poorly designed database got to do with wireless... If you went to a bank which had a state of the art security system but tellers left cash lying around on counters that the public access is that fault of the security system ???


If you have a home grown billing system, did you secure your db by encrypting it? If your using Access, nope. If you have a system by say WebMD, Misys, or NextGen? Maybe, Mostlikely. How long or hard would this be to get into your network and figure out there are CC's in the claims system? I have no clue, cause I only monitor so I keep up to date to keep hackers out of my networks. I don't practice the trade, but from what I have seen in regards to wi-fi security. I would say on a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being hardest about a 3 or 4 to get onto a store bought system, especially one installed without a consultant specializing in the wi-fi.

Please dude don't keep up the myth here, dont put numbers on a probability you admit you know nothing about . Cause now folks say oh 4/10 is OK, then I will do what my buddy from AOL told me and that will take me up to 8 of 10 which is the best I will never get because 10 is really no wires or wireless, no floppy drive no access to bios no cdrom etc .
So 9/10 is stuff a hardened system that is unusable..
What you need to say is NO system is secure and you can ony minimise the exposure and evaluate the risk. perform due dilegence and move on and never read crap from the gartner group..


How and why do I know so much about hacking?


First, I don't want to give you the wrong impression, I don't hack. I have 10+ years in the Information Technology areana. I have developed strong business relationships with Fortune 100 companies, Government Agencies, and small business across the states working as a Staff level Engineer (both pre/post sales). I am the currently an IT Director for a consulting company based in Atlanta GA. I hold a chair on the Board of Directors for the Network Professional Association (NPA), and am the founding member and 2004 President of the Atlanta Chapter of the NPA. I am certified in both Cisco & Microsoft, plus am or have been an active member is such organizations as NaSPA, IEEE, TAG, NPA, F&AM, and Scottish Rites. Over the past 12 months I have been working with four other individuals in creating InVision Logix. InVision Logix will be a healthcare software development company, where I will hold the title of COO. We are currently at the stage of meeting with Venture Capital Investors. In fact we have a meeting tomorrow with them so please wish me luck.

Luck there is a great biz model LOL
Yawn
I will not empty my kidneys on your parade but you seem aligned with all the orgs that created all this insecure crap in the first place.

Cisco who maybe 5 years ago publicly stated they were not in the security biz .. MS OH well.. IEEE a bunch of corp paid numb testes and numb ovaries that create protocols that are industry standard as long as it their industry /corp/hardware. This is the same bunch of engineers that are up to oh rev 6 on wireless systems and security ..
hello Dude it's all YOUR !@#$%^& gang that created all the problems..
God forbid we should the the RFC process define protocols..
But RFC works because it full of real people doing real jobs and working on real networks not bunch of theorists white papering each other to death..

[MikeH]

Gee thanks for the input here OZZY... I take it you have been downsized lately? If so, I wonder why? Anti-MS, Cisco, and other organizations in general... So are you anti corporate america too?

You know what I was TRYING to say. Yet, instead of backing up some of what I stated in my post, you try to tear down the whole entire post. I am also proud to be on the BOD for the NPA, the Atlanta Chapter President, and a founding member of the Atlanta NPA, I can't help you if you feel otherwise, nor do I give a flying $%#$, I was demostrating my experience and expertise. The positions I hold are not ones you can just get on, you have to be voted by your peers into those positions. In regards to standards, I am for standardization, it allows competing and different products to communicate with each other effectively. Gee could you imagine no standardization of protocols across the internet? Oh wait, lemme guess your a linux guy... or you were never voted on to hold a position of honor by your peers whooo hoooo... This argument could go on and on and on too. We could toss insults back and forth for hours, going who makes more, who has more experience, who has the bigger better ego... frankly dude this is the internet so I don't care. And you know I can just as easily go back and call your's BS as much as you called mine.

For example you stated: What the @#$% has a poorly secured and poorly designed database got to do with wireless...

What I was trying to state, and what you SHOULD KNOW is that if someone is already jeaporidizing data by using a poorly designed databases developed in house or done on the "cheap" using say ACCESSS or MYSQL on their network with Zero Encryption, and that network has I-net access then they ARE in jeapordy now, and if that same person goes out and buys a "Cheap" WLAN say out of a catalog, ebay, or CompUSA haven't they just INCREASED their RISKS? How much more have they put their client's data in jeapordy? Huh? Answer that one...

Also, Hacking Big Corps vs Small Ones. I note you said "we" in "You know why you don't see old hackers because we are smart enough to say out of idiot 2600 meets" therefore you have SOME background in Security and hacking, good. Then you will HAVE TO AGREE with this Common Sense statement: If I were a hacker, I wouldn't go after the big corps cause they have the better intrusion detection system, the personel to check log files weekly/daily, and easy access to Government (FBI) help when they do get hacked. Where as the smaller family corp, doesn't have the $50+M (M-thousands) IDS systems, I don't think they would pay my salary to have me look at log files once a week, and I am sure they wouldn't even notice someone on their system unless the kiddie did something to it that brought it down. Now as a former hacker, which would you go after if you were looking for some CC's?

My post was quickly done, and part PR for those not familiar with security to make/help them understand that there are people out there roaming for WLANs, roaming the I-Net for small businesses that will NEVER notice the intrusion. If you are an experienced network wizzard, then you know this is true, otherwise your just a guy with a keyboard stating he knows things based on the results of google searches. I agree there is absolutely NO 100% "10" system in the world, unless it is completely still in the box waiting to be assembled. However, be realistic dude. What kind of statement would you have used? People think 1 to 10, 10 being hard, 2-3 being easy. 15 minutes is easy guy. oooh and OZ isn't an unsecured db is a cakewalk once your on the inside of the firewall isn't it?

Which would you rather have - Intelligent people being more aware of their responsibilities to their clients or Intelligent people being completely unaware of their responsibilities?

Responsibilities include keeping their client's data as safe and secure as possible. Nothing is 100%, but a encrypted DB and a decent WLAN will better protect their client's data than a Access DB, and a Linksys (cisco) WLAN.

[Kursk]

Mike H. Can you explain how enterprise grade wireless is better? Is it proprietary protocols, intrusion detection, etc? Our IC has recommended a device that is wonderful - it allows 250 connections but for all I can tell it still relies on WEP, which is insecure last time I looked. Why are consumer grade wireless devices inherently unsafe? Is WPA inadequate.

I appreciate your attempts to educate us. I am really trying to come to grips with wireless security as so many small offices want to move this way so they can use their tablet based EMRs. Funny, Bill Zelman of Powermed states emphatically "wireless security is not an issue" and then has nothing more to say. You seem to think its a major issue. I don't know what to think, but before I lay down $800 for an Enterasys AP I'd like to know why its worth the money!

PS to all:
This is an important topic. Please keep on topic and let's not get personal. I'd really like some productive debate so MDs can begin to understand how to manage security and make rational choices on hardware/software.

Thanks.

[ozzie]

. Funny, Bill Zelman of Powermed states emphatically "wireless security is not an issue" and then has nothing more to say. You seem to think its a major issue. I don't know what to think, but before I lay down $800 for an Enterasys AP I'd like to know why its worth the money!

Thanks.
Which version aka part number are you buying.. ??
You can make wireless secure by best effort standards
Run vpns from the clients to the ap run a radius server for authentication.
PEAP is not broken and neither is IP-Sec not SSL or SSH2 for that matter..
In the end you need to test your network..
As I have stated many times security is layered process and you need to check all the layers..

There is a lot of FUD about wireless security..
But next time you check in at the airport at a kerbside checkin note no wires.
Much of the FUD is due to poorly installed systems and default systems..
Like the spousal install yes yes yes yes yes yes .. lol

oz

[ozzie]

You dont know me by trust me I am not anti corp how ever I mentioned that that wireless can be secure and you shot me down with below which is FUD and you know it..
then I see this about vulture capitol http://www.docsboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271 read this then tell me why I am concerned .. I have seen so many people creamed by the process its unreal..

My corporate policy is to put people before profit..
Maybe arcane .. but thats what I believe.
and yes I am anti corporate any corp that puts profit before people /workers.
but thats another story for another board..
Also I watched how millions of people lost life savings during the "internet boom" which was more FUD..

if caring about people makes me bad then I am a bad guy

sorry






When working with WiFi you want a controlled environment or you shouldn't be using it.

There are actually individuals that drive randomly around their cities with a laptop looking for access. Using just store bought Linksys, Microsoft, Netgear really is not protecting your clients personal information. I have sat through 6 vendor presentations just this week dealing with wi-fi, one was with the CTO who personally gave me a lunch and learn where he cracked Cisco's LEAP in 15 minutes. A computer on a Linksys, Microsoft or Netgear took him less than 5.

Sorry but I am a security freak when it comes to networks & computers.