Dr. Notes

[greg]

Does anyone have any experience with this EMR? - we are having a demo soon and I an wondering what are the pros and cons of this system

[mel]

Greg, welcome to Docsboard, we hope some will come to your rescue soon
Mel

[Scroggie]

Most of what I've heard is that they are aggressive salesmen who claim to be Dr Notes calling for Dr So and So, bypassing your screeners.

[mel]

Most of what I've heard is that they are aggressive salesmen who claim to be Dr Notes calling for Dr So and So, bypassing your screeners.
The secret is out? :eek:
I thought my firewall was impenetrable. :cool:

On a more serious note Dr Greg, what made you choose Dr Notes, are you willing to share? Which others did you compare and why didn't you pick one of them?
Have you looked at our EMR FAQ?
If you prefer to discuss the on the closed side of the site, you can use the Physician's Lounge
Mel

[greg]

We are a 5 provider primary care office that hads been looking at EMRs for the last several months. I have been reading the posts at other forums and it seems that most of the comments about this software have been posistive although I understand that they could be from Dr. NOtes sales people. We are looking for a system that requires minimal typing, voice recognition, tablet pc ready, has quality support. I have looked at Practice partner, Mysis - will be seeing demos of ECW, A4 also this week. These seemed to be highly rated by TEPR group.

[Mike]

We are a 5 provider primary care office that hads been looking at EMRs for the last several months. I have been reading the posts at another forum and it seems that most of the comments about this software have been posistive although I understand that they could be from Dr. NOtes sales people. We are looking for a system that requires minimal typing, voice recognition, tablet pc ready, has quality support. I have looked at Practice partner, Mysis - will be seeing demos of ECW, A4 also this week. These seemed to be highly rated by TEPR group.
Comments on Docsboard are more likely to be objective, no vendors
M

[Kursk]

Actually the comments at EMRUPDATE have been rather scathing in their disdain for the company's approach, apparently high pressure sales. Proceed with caution.

[buslick]

I have never seen a positive post from a real doctor on Dr. Notes on any of the 4 forums I follow now or have followed in the past. The only positive posts come from anonymous posters that are clearly salesmen for the company. There is one post that outlines how they train their salespeople to close the deal so that they can get their money. Don't be duped without doing due diligence.

[buslick]

Here is a job posting made by Dr. Notes to hire a salesman to sell their EMR:

Updated 6/23/2003. Dr. Notes
For you doubters:
- Yes, the ad is real
- Yes, the job is open
- Yes, I am seriously hiring tough SOBs
- No further need to complain to Careerbuilder. Tuck your tail between your legs and go beg for a job elsewhere.

For you Winners, read on:

Arrogant, Prima Donna, Do or Die, Closers Needed

Are you better than everyone else?

Working for idiots and losers?

Doing all the work but underpaid and under appreciated?

Then quit and join us.

***** RELOCATION CANDIDATES WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED *****

We can take your B.S. if you can deliver the deals.
You can come in late, take 2 hour lunches, forget to turn in your reports, scream at the staff, and pretty much do whatever else you want. We will even hide you when the police show up, tell lies to your wife (or husband) when she (he) calls, and look bill collectors right in the face and say we never heard of you.

All you have to do is sell like a maniac and put up or shut up by taking
the gig on a commission only basis - no sales, no money.

Q: How much?
A: A realistic opportunity to earn $40K a month. Unless you're a poser -
then you get squat. Note the words "realistic" not fantasy,
"opportunity" not guaranteed, "earn" not a giveaway salary.

Q: Who do I have to kill?
A: That's optional. We pay extra.

Q: What's the gig?
A: Sell software to doctors on the phone. A one-call close. A high level
job doing business on the phone with professionals.

Q: What about the recession?
A: Screw the recession. People get sick and medicare keeps paying regardless of the stock market.

Q: What experience do I have to have?
A: If you can sell at this level or have run a business then you the man
(or woman). I could care less what you know or don't know about medicine. This is all about helping small business owners be more successful.

Q: Why should I work for you? How do I know you're not a bunch of
losers?
A: We're the leaders in our space - a large mainstream market. We're in
our twentieth sales year and cash positive from sales - we aren't living offsucker (investor) money. We offer a unique product with no real competition. We have the medical, technical, and marketing expertise that the pretenders don't have, so we kick sand in their face and laugh. We own the net and have tons of clients waiting to do business with the doctors. Therefore the doctors line up and have to sell us.

Q: Who the hell are you?
A: The President Sales. A commission only top gun closer from way back. As a rep, I hated working for useless poser managers who couldn't close a door let alone a deal and therefore couldn't teach me anything and only got in my way. I told a few that they were no longer allowed to go on sales calls with me because they were stupid and would blurt out idiotic words like "discount" which cost me money. I vowed that when I got into a position of power I would literally design the company and product around the close and the rep. Mission accomplished. See it for yourself, and be prepared to smile so much your face will hurt.

Q: Are you for real? Crazy? Some kinda comedian? Serious?
A: Yes.

Q: When do I start?
A: We start a training cycle every week. If you impress me and are in
a hurry I may let you start today and train later.

Q: What's next?
A: Visit our website at DrNotes.com to learn more about how we
are changing the way doctors manage their practice. Email a meaningful
cover letter (with your name and "Arrogant Prima Donna" in the subject
line) to . Email a resume and tell me why I should
hire you. Back up your B.S. fairy tales with some heroic stories about
how you slay dragons and pull deals out of your hat. Make it good or I'll drag your email into the trashcan with the other losers.

Q: This post is "unprofessional". You can't say this kinda stuff when
recruiting. Blah, blah, blah .
A: Professional is as professional does. We provide a real service in a
win-win truly ethical manner and tell no lies. Which is more than you
can say for Enron, Arthur Anderson, Imclone, WorldCom, Tyco, and the
rest of those crooks. Feel free to send me your best flame - just make
it interesting. I plan on reading the best ones at our IPO party some

[mel]

The discussion is worrying, :mad: granted 90% of the discussants are competitors, I'd have to think long and hard, please try talking to physicians using the EMR before you cut the check (& keep us posted)
Mel

[Surgeon]

That is absolutely the most honest sales recruiting instrument I have ever seen. That is what being a true salesman is all about, and I admire the guy for being honest. If I didn't already have a charting/billing system, I think I'd buy theirs just on principle. Truley hilarious

[greg]

OUch - sounds like not to many folks happy with the DR NOtes sales approach. Viewed the demo, liked the software, but the training and support issues sound problematic. My experience with computer/hardware/software - although limited - is that training and support are everything. Thanks for the feedback. Next demo is for E ClinincWorks.

[Fcarreno]

Do not buy DR NOTES!!! it is a ripoff and there are better EMR's that cost less this is the most expensive and not worth the price....I am still hurting from purchasing it I don't use it, will never use it and it turned me off to EMR until we are forced to have one and hopefully by that time I will be retired.

[EMRhelp.org]

DO NOT BUY DR NOTES

[buslick]

Here are some negative posts about Dr. Notes from another site.
From Dr. Murdoch:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~epiphany/IRS.Tax.Lein.pdf
http://home.cogeco.ca/~epiphany/dr.notes.legal.proceedings.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~epiphany/dr.notes.noshow.in.court.pdf

The real reference list for Dr. Notes (see more more references - http://www.pbcountyclerk.com/records_home.html )

1. Weaver, Gerald E MD
1511 Charles Ave
Worland, WY 82401-4122
Phone: (307) 347-2405

Anyone close to Wyoming mind giving Dr. Weaver a call ? Ask him to log on here ? So we can get the scoop (not that we dont already have it).

2. Rose M. Dagen, D.O., F.A.C.C
Cardiologist, Internal Medicine
Location Waynesboro, Pennsylvania (PA)
17268
Go to Top of Page


From Dr. Roth:

Bailey Cove Family Physicians is a 5 physician group of board-certified family practitioners in Huntsville,Alabama. In the fall of 2003 after much research by our Dr. Marlow the decision was made to contract with Dr. Notes. Many factors went into this decision including a five-year lease to own contract with Hewlett-Packard for the equipment, fairly impressive E&M coding software and a claim for full HIPPA compliance. The main attraction to this company was the payment to us of $700 a month per physician for our prescription writing data. This reduced our payments from $900 a month per physician to $200 a month per physician. We believed this enterprise would be cost-effective since it would improve our coding practices and move us toward a paperless system.

Hardware review.
From the very beginning we have had trouble with the hardware installed by Dr. Notes. We have had trouble with connectivity of the wireless tablet PCs. On average we have had to reboot the server once a week due to connectivity problems. The tablet PCs have not performed as expected. We anticipated simply using the tablet and pen but find we need keyboards and mice to enter patient data. Several of our physicians are contemplating getting rid of the tablets and placing desktops in each room. The tablet PCs are connected wirelessly and are at times frustratingly slow. When we discuss our technical problems with Dr. Notes we are often met with confusion and condescending dismissivness. We have spent a considerable amount of money having our own IT professionals straightening out many of the problems.


Software review.
The Bad
The time needed to enter data on patients is rather cumbersome and lengthy.(I have personally measured the amount of time taken to document a patient encounter using Dr. Notes vs. the previous voice recognition software that I have used in the past. They are about equal for me, the resident Ubernerd. However for the other physicians in the practice it is taking at least twice as long to document a patient encounter. Entering ICD-9 and CPT codes (lab work, X-rays, and procedures etc.) are difficult since the lists are all strictly phrased according to the code books. I personally have spent an exorbitant amount of time “cleaning up” the codes so that they are usable. I've also had to spend time creating lab profiles. Entering laboratory work is very difficult since each individual lab and diagnosis code must be entered separately.
The most frustrating aspect of this software is the poor handling of other documents such as consultation notes, x-ray reports and lab reports. When I initially went for training on the software I immediately recognized their lack of anticipation for this aspect of medical practice. I spent a considerable amount of time simply explaining the problem to the trainers who seem to have no concept of what I was talking about. We basically had to create a scanning and electronic inbox system for our office in order to facilitate getting paperwork and documentation into the Dr. Notes system. The linking portion of the software is pre-Windows 98 and truncates the filename making it difficult to link documents into a patient record.

The Good
I do very much enjoy the prescription writing aspect of the software. Once the patients medications are loaded into the system refills are quite simple. I have had to load quite a few newer medications into the system but this is really not that difficult. The E&M documentation software is fairly impressive. Of course I have no way of knowing how accurate it is but considering five out of ten professional coders disagree on documentation codes I am not too concerned. I think someone will have a difficult time arguing against the E&M codes documented by the software. Having instant access to the important parts of the patient record without looking for missing charts and the ability to access the information from home has been nice.

Financial.
This is the biggest complaint that we have with Dr. Notes. We have simply not been paid for the prescription writing data that we have supplied to the company. We have received 1 check over the last nine months and the company owes us approximately $21,000. Early on there was some confusion as to what constituted a prescription that was valid for analysis. They do not want to pay for acute medications but only for chronic medications. We have asked repeatedly for criteria to help us ensure that we are meeting the quotas. We have generally been ignored. We are currently in the process of seeking legal advice.

Conclusion.
We have been over all disappointed in the Dr. Notes program. This frustration has been magnified and compounded by the financial irresponsibility of the company. We would discourage anyone from entering into any contractual relationship with this company. If there is anyone who would like to speak to me personally I would be happy to discuss this difficult situation. If there is anyone who could offer legal advice we would welcome any input.

Eric Roth M.D.
Bailey Cove Family Physicians
9000 Bailey Cove Road
Huntsville, AL
256-882-7335


P.S. Thank you to the managers and directors of this web site it has been very helpful. I have tried to call Dr. Edward and Dr. Weber but they are out for the holidays. I did talk to someone at Dr.Dagen’s office who was especially nice but did not know the details of their lawsuit. Someone is to call me back next week. My goal at this point is to talk to these physicians and their lawyers to find out the nature of their suits and to get advice on our current difficulties.


From Madmax:

I found out that it has been an interesting new year at Dr Notes. First off, they have been reported to the Labor board for not paying employees their final paycheck after firing them. The response to the state labor board was something about waiting for some allegedly big deal to go through in a week or so and then people would be paid, but also that the co is filing for bankruptcy – but that depends on this “big deal coming through”

Then, Dr Angel Garcia has been telling staff that the company is not in financial trouble, but in the same breath told them that if they were there for the purpose only getting a paycheck then they should leave. Maybe I'm stupid but I was under the impression that if I have an obligation to go to work for a company,and I met that obligation, the normal flow of things require that the company is obligated to pay me, but things must be different at dr notes.

But the biggest one is this. Apparently today most of the staff were laid off/fired (remember the co is not in financial trouble - or maybe these staff were just there for the money - must get rid of the bad apples) and there is no one left to give support to the drs out there with this crappy software as the training and tech support staff are either gone or about to go

[Surgeon]

Geesh, what a nightmare. I feel just plain lucky for having got a pretty good product that I don't have to sue anybody over.

[ozzie]

http://www.offshoredev.com/jsp/features_detail.jsp?fid=109
I am not shore is this is part of the problem..

[EMRhelp.org]

FYI, Dr. Notes filed for Chapter 11. Funny they dont mention it on their website.

[mel]

What is going to happen to the users?

[EMRhelp.org]

Their EMR will never get another update. What they have now is what they will be stuck with. No tech support, etc.

[ozzie]

Another reason why open source is great. never gets twilighted and as the code open for anyone to use other can come along and make it work..
Whats caused Dr Notes to die???
Oz

[EMRhelp.org]

I am not sure. I do hear they have been scamming for years. Maybe the word finally got out. Other EMR forums have detailed the demise, with specifics.

[ozzie]

just wondering if there is any lessons to be learned..
was it Ron Regan that said trust but verify..

oz

[mel]

just wondering if there is any lessons to be learned..
was it Ron Regan that said trust but verify..

oz

I think he said "trust is no substitute for verification"

[Fcarreno]

I would like to see how many people still owe the loan company HP money they were fully aware of Dr Notes and thier practices we should band together to wipe our note clean as these two companies were involved in what my lawer descibes as a Bait and Switch. please let us know if you are interested to get our lawyer involved and form a class action suit or something against Dr Notes and hewitt packard loan company. ASAP.
Fernando

[ozzie]

hewitt packard loan company ...

you mean Hewlett Packard ???

[SLIM]

Since Dr Notes has closed down and not providing IT support for the 'leased' software are the doctors stuck owing 3rd party companies interested in working together to suit Dr Notes etc?

[mel]

Since Dr Notes has closed down and not providing IT support for the 'leased' software are the doctors stuck owing 3rd party companies interested in working together to suit Dr Notes etc?

Welcome, not sure I understand the Q :o

[ozzie]

If your asking can a 3rd party like me get together and provide support package for the Dr Notes application..
The answer is maybe and we can talk..

If you asking can the docs who got screwed get their data that they OWN from Dr Notes software and let the boxes get repossesed by the leasing company the answer is yes we can talk about that..
If your talking about about sueing Dr Notes. I can help from the technical geek part of the suit but a legal beagle would have to handle the rest..

oz

[SLIM]

the only thing I leased was software. it appears I'm stuck paying the leasing co for the next few years. Has anyone heard of or managed to get out of the 3rd party lease? The Dr Notes data base will likely not be updated in the future meaning I need another EMR system. I don't want to continue paying for Dr Notes.

[ozzie]

Depending on the lease ??
Do you have a copy of the lease I can look over ??
Oz

[DrWinn]

I didn't know they had officially filed chapter 11. I extended an offer to DrNotes users on emrupdate that once DrNotes officially declared bankruptcy or ceased doing business that we would extend an offer of a free e-MDs license for Chart to help ease the pain. This is a good will gesture - and I'm happy if we break even, but I don't want to lose any money on the proposition. So here is the deal. The license is for Chart/scheduler and tracking board. It does not include our billing module. It also does not include training which would have to be purchased separately. Maintenance includes support and software upgrades and is 20% of standard purchase price. It would begin immediately and for Chart only, would probably come in around $1,750 per year plus or minus.

[mel]

I didn't know they had officially filed chapter 11. I extended an offer to DrNotes users on emrupdate that once DrNotes officially declared bankruptcy or ceased doing business that we would extend an offer of a free e-MDs license for Chart to help ease the pain. This is a good will gesture - and I'm happy if we break even, but I don't want to lose any money on the proposition. So here is the deal. The license is for Chart/scheduler and tracking board. It does not include our billing module. It also does not include training which would have to be purchased separately. Maintenance includes support and software upgrades and is 20% of standard purchase price. It would begin immediately and for Chart only, would probably come in around $1,750 per year plus or minus.

David, please clarify, because we have received at least 3 private messages from concerned physicians worried about Dr Notes going belly up.

[buslick]

Can't even post on emrupdate about Dr. Notes as they have been threatened with lawsuits by Dr. Notes. Better watch what you say here.

[EMRhelp.org]

Never heard of anyone getting successfully sued for telling the truth.

[DrWinn]

EMRhelp.org on page 2 of this thread on 1/15/2005 posted "FYI, Dr. Notes filed for Chapter 11. Funny they dont mention it on their website."
That was why I said " I didn't know they had officially filed chapter 11".
In any case, our offer remains open to help out Dr. Notes users who cannot obtain ongoing support for their product assuming the company is either officially or for all practical purposes, out of business.

[mel]

It is official, Dr Notes is in trouble. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7787678/)
If you are a physician stuck with the software, Dr Winn and Mike, Docsboard.com members have offered to help you out.

EMRHelp.org, thanks for standing firm and warning everyone of impending problems long before they became public.

I wonder what can be done to limit the impact of future DrNotes crises? :confused:
Have an escrow account for EMR developers to deposit their proprietary code, so that if they go belly up, some other vendor can help recover some data? :confused:
Require EMR vendors use some outside support? :confused:

[mel]

More stories on DrNotes (http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2005/05/09/story1.html?page=1)

[mel]

Dr Notes (http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2005/06/06/story3.html) facing class action suit from it's employers

[mel]

Since Dr Notes has closed down and not providing IT support for the 'leased' software are the doctors stuck owing 3rd party companies interested in working together to suit Dr Notes etc?

Slim, you may want to contact the attorneys (http://www.bizjournals.com/industries/economic_view/bankruptcies/2005/07/25/southflorida_story7.html) working with a group of physicians who had Dr. Notes EMR, I doubt you will get anything back moneywise, but you may be able to work with them recover your patient records if nothing else.

Meanwhile, back at the DrNotes company website, they are accusing ex-employees of sending unsuspecting users a patch with a virus :eek: !!

[Fcarreno]

My name is Fernando Carreno. I have been sued by HP(Hewlett Packard ) financing as a result of thge lease agreement I entered into regarding the purchase of DR Notes. I have filed a cross-claim against HP and my attorney plans to turn our cross-claim into a class action against HP as a result of their purchase of the Dr Notes financing agreement and financing of Dr Notes software. Without HP Dr Notes would not have been able to perpetrate this fraud on myself and others.
If you are interested in joining me in my suit against HP contact me at fcarreno@pol.net with your information and I will forward it to my attorney.
Hopefully,together we can see that justice is done in regards to this matter.

Very Truly Yours,

Fernando Carreno M.D.